we asked at the top of the show what you could possibly be doing at this hour. our producer john tower has a couple of answers. >> we've got danny on twitter. why am i up? waiting for my girlfriend to wake up to go to denny's. >> give her a little nudge, denny's is 24 hours. time's wasting. what else? >> mike richardson, charlotte, north carolina, wife away visiting family, do you know where i put my jacket and my wallet? >> yes, i will serve as your wife this morning. it's pathetic you ask your wife that every morning. your jacket is balled up on the floor where you left it and your wallet is in the fruit bowl in the kitchen. i don't know why you keep putting it there. "morning joe" starts right now.

. the packers playing at the goal line at wilson scrambles to keep it alive. the game's final play, to the end zone, which is fumbled by tate and jennings simultaneous, who do they give it to? touchdown! >> okay. good morning. it's tuesday, september 25th, welcome to "morning joe." with us onset, we have mike barnicle, and pulitzer prize winning historian jon meacham. say it with me now because we've said it a million times. >> have you seen how little it is? >> yeah. >> that's tiny. i don't know if i were a man i would show that. >> well, he's the author of the forthcoming book "thomas

jefferson" -- >> very little. >> we're going to cgi today to see -- >> what happened to that football game last night? >> egregious. >> what happened? >> this has to be the breaking point on the replacement refs. last play of the game. there was a bad call before that. but the last play of the game, a heave into the end zone, looks like the packers defender intercepts it. one official says touchdown seahawks, and the one on the left gives the time-out signal, so they split it. so they review this play for ten minutes as a monday night football audience waits to see the result of the game. it's called a touchdown on the field, ten-minute review confirms it, touchdown, seahawks win the game, packers fall to 1-2 and are furious. it wasn't just a bad call or two guys splitting the call, it's the fact it took them ten minutes to look at this and come up with a decision.

>> and both teams left the field and had to return for an extra point. so -- >> okay. >> well, if only the nfl made enough money to pay the refs, we wouldn't be talking about this. that's it. it's got to be very tough. >> raise some ticket prices. >> if we could have a bake sale, maybe, mika. if we could get a bake sale for the nfl. >> wow, that was a tie. it's bright green. >> what? >> your tie. >> oh, lord. >> we have a lot to get to, including mayor bloomberg and birth control. there's a story pertaining to those two things. >> so mayor bloomberg -- >> scott brown is getting desperate. >> can i ask you something, willie? >> sure. >> we understand now in new york city that little kids are being handed out morning after pills. >> we'll get to that. >> we're teasing it and then i'm going to ask the question. >> that's telling the story, but go ahead. >> they're letting little kids and we're going to show you how they're doing it.

giving like the morning after pills like in pez dispensers. my question is, do they get detention if they drink their morning after pill with a big gulp? >> that's the double-whammy. the new york double-whammy. mika's going to explain this story. they put a flyer in your backpack, and it's an opt out flyer. unless you see that, you're opting in. >> morning after pill is like 40-year-old women couldn't get those things a couple of years ago. >> we're going to talk about that coming up. >> do you know what the pez dispenser looks like they have? it's inappropriate, willie. these are young kids. >> we'll start with politics this morning. >> okay. >> mitt romney and paul ryan continue their bus tour through ohio today. in an interview yesterday with peter alexander, the republican candidate was asked about his recent poll numbers and why he continues to trail in many critical swing states. >> i'm very pleased with the fact that we have a campaign

that is taking our message to the people across america. and look, we're going to win. there's no question in my mind, we're going to win. the polls go up, polls go down, there have been some weeks i'm ahead, some i'm behind. you know, all these states that voted for barack obama last time right now the majority of people in those states are saying they don't want to vote for barack obama. >> okay. what's next? barack obama should be ashamed of himself. >> wait a minute. >> go ahead. >> president obama's in new york city for the united nations general assembly. and the clinton global initiative, which we're going to this morning. >> are we really? >> so your boyfriend -- but one of the first orders of business was taping an interview with the women of "the view" alongside the first lady. among the topics, his republican opponents -- >> this guy's not giving serious interviews to anybody -- >> who? >> barack obama, the president of the united states.

>> because romney did at a really opportune time. >> but he's going to all of these places, no time for netanyahu, but time for "the view," time for -- >> no time for netanyahu. >> that was good. >> i know. i know. >> wally from "leave it to beaver" was in that. >> was jerry mathers. >> no, that was the beave. >> asked about the newly released tax returns. >> all right. >> take a look. >> governor romney on "60 minutes" was asked, does he think it's fair that he pays a lower tax rate than somebody who is making $50,000 a year? and he said yes. i think it's fair and i also think that's the way you get economic growth. i've got a different vision about the way we grow an economy. i think you grow the economy from the middle out not from the top down. >> let me ask you, jon meacham, do you think the president was

more presidential on the view or on "entertainment tonight"? >> i think "the view." >> clearly. love the view. >> there's this long tradition of this. remember -- >> fdr on "the view." >> fdr was actually on "inside edition," i think. >> it was william howard taft on the food network. >> unfortunately he wasn't a chef. >> first of all, it's the women on "the view" and you like doing "the view," i don't know what you're talking about. you reached a mass audience with a lot of really important things you have to say when you go on "the view." >> i'm not disparaging "the view." >> it's not about "the view." >> i love "the view." >> why can't it be a serious interview on "the view?" >> it can. >> but you just said -- >> well, it's a serious interview, i was talking about "entertainment tonight." >> that's really not what you were saying.

just be quiet, actually, be quiet and change your tie. let's get to hillary clinton who was fantastic. and she totally went there yesterday. >> where did she go? >> he was talking taxes, not just president obama doing that. >> okay. >> she weighed in on the issue -- >> this is the worst newscast we've ever had. >> -- at the clinton -- >> it's a grab bag. >> her husband's annual conference of world leaders and business politics and philanthropy. take a look. >> and one of the issues that i have been preaching about around the world is collecting taxes in an equitable manner, especially from the elites in every country. you know, i'm out of american politics, but it is a fact that around the world the elites of every country are making money. there are rich people everywhere.

and yet they do not contribute to the growth of their own countries. >> i love her. she's right. >> there are rich people everywhere. and the point is? >> she's right. >> she's rich. >> what is your point? >> she's rich too. >> that's your -- that's your comeback? >> well, i guess -- >> she might get a challenge from the idea that rich people are not contributing at all to the growth of their countries. and i think if she runs for president in 2016, you'll probably see a lot of that clip. >> yeah, i think she probably needs to come off of that a little bit. >> i don't have a problem with that. >> saying it like it is. >> no, that's not like it is. if you want to go on a war against job creators, go on a war against job creators. >> come on. >> seriously. >> trickle down. it'll all get to you, don't worry. like never. >> i'll tell you what we do, why don't we spend trillions and trillions of dollars and give it to bureaucrats in washington,

d.c. because that'll help turn around our economy in four years. oh, wait, no, it didn't. it's actually worse now than it's been. mitt romney's also sharpening his attacks when it comes to president obama's handling of foreign policy. the republican candidate keyed in on this phrase that the president used during a 60 minutes interview when he was asked about the recent unrest in the muslim world. >> i think it was absolutely the right thing for us to do to align ourselves with democracy, universal rights, a notion that people have -- have to be able to participate in their own governance. but i'm -- i was pretty certain and continue to be pretty certain that there are going to be bumps in the road. >> he said the developments of the middle east are bumps in the road. yeah, that was my reaction. bumps in the road. we had an ambassador assassinated, we had a muslim

brotherhood member elected to the presidency of egypt, 20,000 people have been killed in syria. these are not bumps in the road, these are human lives, these are developments we don't want to see. this is time for a president who will shape events in the middle east not just be at mercy to the events in the middle east. >> mike, we talk about how mitt romney's out of touch all the time. i would say a president saying that some of the problems in the middle east are "bumps in the road" is extraordinarily out of touch when you have a u.s. ambassador scraped off the streets of benghazi, 20,000 killed in syria. you've got israel, our closest ally in the middle east in open, basically verbal warfare between their leader and our leader. you can go around the entire region. it's mass chaos. troops getting gunned down by supposed allies every day in afghanistan. these aren't bumps in the road. this is an absolute mess. paul ryan's right, this does have the feel of tehran 1979.

i'm not saying it's going to go that way, but you remember 1979 and the chaos that ensued. this isn't it. but this isn't a bump in the road. >> this is not 1979. >> so it's not -- paul ryan's not right. >> first of all, how do you know it's not 1979? >> you said it wasn't, and you said it wasn't. >> i said it probably isn't. if i'm president of the united states i don't do what jimmy carter says and call iran stability. the students were racing towards our -- >> isn't the larger issue rather than extracting what the president says during an interview and what the republican candidate's view on what he said, isn't the larger issue that both of these candidates have dismissed about obligation to the american people to talk to us. the president hasn't had a press conference. the president doesn't take

serious questions from journalists. governor romney doesn't take serious questions from journalists. we don't have any specifics from governor romney or really the president. >> on this issue, though, i think it is a serious problem and the president just talks about bumps in the road in the middle east. jon meacham, there's chaos. you've got the leader of egypt who decides he has to wait a few days to protest riots in our embassy. you've got the muslim brotherhood seeming to gain traction there. let's hope it turns out well. you've got the president, i believe, making a terrible mistake questioning egypt is our ally or not. you keep calling them your ally until there's no other option. 20,000 dead in syria, a u.s. ambassador killed in benghazi. all the warning signs, the ambassador's own diary says he was fearful for his safety. the u.s. government giving three days warning that riots could

ensue and people could be killed in the u.s. embassy. this isn't a bump in the road. i'll tell you, if mitt romney or a republican president said something like that, the mainstream media would be on fire. >> that's true. that's true. >> or as willie likes to say, enfuego. >> i can't count as many times as willie has said that. to my mind, that's the most interesting thing, because i don't think president obama thinks what's happening in the way you've put it are bumps in the road. i don't think that mitt romney really, really believes that 47% of americans he's not going to -- if he becomes president he's not going to worry about. i think there's a -- i think we're in -- at this point in the campaign, we're in a war of phrases. and context is hugely important. and you have to judge these guys, i think, on their whole campaigns, their whole lives, and --

>> so is it safe to say that president obama was extraordinarily naive as a candidate in 2008 when he told people, you know, if i talked to the leaders of iran. if i'm nicer to them than george w. bush was nicer to them. i'm embarrassed to be an american and the day i get elected, they're going to be nicer to us. was that naive? >> let's find all the wrong words to use. >> yes, the way that's characterized is naive. it's also true, i asked the president once, what would you do about israel if israel wanted to make a unilateral strike if they believed it was in their national security interest. and he said -- i'm paraphrasing now, he said we take no options off the table. i don't think this is a weak foreign policy president. >> i don't think it is. >> no, i agree, he's not a weak foreign policy president. but it is a jumbled mess. >> and here's part of the issue. a front page story in the "new

york times," in arab spring, obama finds -- you go into the body of the story and find this paragraph. the tension between mr. obama and the arab states derived from an obama character trait. he's not built many personal relationships with foreign leaders. "he's not good with personal relationships. that's not what interests him" said one united states diplomat. but in the middle east, those relationships are essential. the lack of them deprives d.c. of the inability to influence leadership decisions. that, that is at the core, i think, of a lot of what we're talking about. tony blair will be on later. when you speak with tony blair, you can extract with him that he has developed personal relationships with leaders in the middle east. it seems this president has been unable to do that. and it's critical. >> he hasn't tried just like he hasn't tried like a lot of members on the hill in both parties. we've been hearing for several

years that this president will go to a country, give a speech and then leave and i've heard from one diplomat after another it's as if he thinks the speech itself is the ends. and not a means to the ends, which, of course, is completely opposite of what george h.w. bush did throughout his entire life. >> i'm not sure your criticism. >> he hasn't done the job that a commander in chief -- >> so he's weak on foreign policy. >> if you're going to jump in to defend a defenseless president, get it right. what i'm talking about here is what this "new york times" is writing, he doesn't build personal relationships. that's hurt us in washington, that's why we have gridlock in washington and a mess in the middle east. whether you're talking about bill clinton, the guy who was the master. he was the master. bill clinton, george h.w. bush. when there was time of crisis, you know what?

those -- >> those two presidents -- >> i didn't say george w. bush, i said george h.w. bush and bill clinton. >> the great bush 41 line was what do you do when you have a few minutes in the white house? you call and say how's the weather in the desert. so you call, it worked out and in a hugely important way. and there's a great quote on this, you have to build the science of human relationships. and it is a science. maybe somebody should talk to the president and say, look, this is a science to master. i do think, mika, this has affected governance at home and abroad. i do think there is too much anecdotal evidence. we talked about the senate democratic caucus and i just read the president played 98

rounds of golf. anybody play golf with the guy? and nobody. >> nobody. because he doesn't -- he doesn't do the -- >> you think he should be having deep and intense meetings with netanyahu. >> these choices, at 6:18 in the morning, i don't know if you think i'm a 3-year-old, but i'm not even going to waste my breath at 6:18 in the morning answering these false connections. but i will tell you what he needs to do. >> it's also a false argument. >> it's not a false argument, mika. it's a matter of history. >> when he totally trumps romney completely in that. >> can i ask you a question? >> no. >> i'm going to ask you a question. how's the weather in -- >> you want to hear? >> i think this is how we help the middle east is i think we need to get some of these pills from these pez dispensers for

tweens and send them to the middle east. >> i want mika's take on this as the mother of two daughters right in the wheel house. high school girls as young as 14 years old will be able and have been able to get the morning after pill at 13 public schools in new york city without parental consent. that decision was announced by the city's department of education yesterday, although many schools distribute condoms, this may be the first time emergency contraception has been made available. about 7,000 girls get pregnant by the time they're 17 in new york city, many of those choose to have abortion. parents will have the choice to opt out of the program. critics, though, say schools aren't doing enough to ensure parents are being informed of their children's decision. they put a slip in their kids' backpack, if you see it, you can opt out, but if you're a kid and

that's going home to your mom and that's a problem in your life, it's not going to your mother. >> if that slip is going home to your mother, you're lucky if your mother is home. far too many kids go to school, coming from homes with no parents, many of them with single parent, working parent not available, not around and you're right, the slip in the backpack, boom. >> that's what i used to do with my report cards. throw them in the garbage. >> only 1% to 2% have opted out so far. i understand the argument. i think mayor bloomberg, again, is putting himself if this is initiated by him, on the cutting edge of social problems that are really affecting the health of our country. teenage pregnancy is incredibly big problem. and it destroys the prospects of young women. and he's trying to do something about it. they give condoms out. so it's not like the concept of birth control handed out to kids without their parents knowing it is something new, completely new, but this is a prescription.

so this is where i am a little conflicted about it. >> it's also the morning after pill, there's a lot of religious people -- a lot of catholics that will say there's a big difference between a condom and a plan b. >> that's an absolute legitimate point of view to have, incidentally, that point of view. >> yes, it is. >> but in the larger universe we're talking about here is too many people in this country just too many people in this country don't realize that if 14-year-old child from a specific section of a specific city poor, parentless, or with one parent there to get pregnant at 14, it's a double death sentence. for the child that she will have and for herself. it's a double death sentence. >> yeah. >> this is going to create a furor, but you're right. >> i think mika's absolutely right and should be commended for by saying on the one hand

and the other hand, which you almost never hear -- >> because you're always interrupting her. let her talk. just let her talk. >> i apologize for that. >> i'm sorry. >> this is a really complicated issue that doesn't lend itself to 15 seconds. boom, over -- >> i'll tell you, it's a fascinating issue. i heard on the radio yesterday driving home -- >> willie, if one of these kids want an advil, do they give them the advil? >> no, i don't think you can. >> it's also fair that the mayor is looking at one of the most important city in the world and the obesity rate is out of whack, the teenage pregnancy rate is out of whack, and he's trying to solve these problems. somebody come up with a better idea instead of just criticizing. >> come on. >> i'm not just criticizing, it's a radical plan. >> it's radical. >> it's radical. let's not pretend this is

just -- >> that's the same as agreeing, by the way. >> i don't disagree, but it hurts her to say she agrees. >> is the tie all right? >> i like the tie. and it's knit. >> you don't see that a lot. >> come on, you're a jersey guy. >> what does that mean? >> i'm saying, i don't want to be the only one here that says this is a little out of whack. >> i would be alarmed if my daughter came home and said i've been popping plan "b" plans. >> and look at this pez dispenser. former president bill clinton, also former florida governor jeb bush. also former british prime minister tony blair. and -- >> are you uncomfortable? >> former academy award winner goldie hawn.

also, the pennsylvania senate race -- >> speaking of plan b, our first guess canceled so jim vandehei will be here from the politico playbook. but here's our number one choice every time. >> he's amazing. >> bill karins. he's back and better than ever with the forecast. billy. >> you are entertaining in a very head-shaking way. >> yeah. >> good morning, everyone. the worst weather in the country as you head out the door is found into the ohio valley. heavy rain and thunderstorms this morning greeting people from missouri to illinois. that's going to slide here in to indiana shortly. all of this mess will be in indianapolis, probably during the peak of the rush hour. keep that in mind. right now central illinois getting the worst of it. another chilly morning. i'm sure the heat's on this morning. all of upstate new york and new england, temperatures this morning in the 40s. it'll be a nice afternoon, though, just like yesterday, plenty of sunshine, temperatures in the low 70s. so perfect fall afternoon. and pittsburgh, slight chance of showers. that's after about 4:00 or 5:00

p.m. the deep south, here we've been talking about the cool, chilly weather in the northern half of the country, but the southern half is blasting the ac, still in the 90s all the way through arizona. no big weather stories heading this way, though, but if you are in the d.c. area all the way through west virginia, do expect clouds and rainy weather the rest of the week. enjoy the sunshine today. that's a beautiful shot speaking of washington, d.c.

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♪ time now to take a look at the morning papers. it's time now to look at the morning papers. >> what time is it? >> "usa today," more than 300 retired military leaders and generals are calling for junk food to be permanently removed from american schools. that is fantastic news. the concerns that the country's childhood obesity problem is impacting up to 26 million americans who are not fit for duty because they are overweight. >> and, of course, in a related story. >> this is incredibly important. >> seriously, i don't know who is setting up these news stories to suck up to mika, but you can stop it right now. >> no, these are the headlines, joe. this is the cutting edge issue of our time, obesity. >> these are 14-d in the food section. >> no, they're not. >> that people -- i will say, though, this is a crisis in the

making and this is the first question i'm going to ask president clinton at the clinton global initiative. from the "l.a. times," a world shortage of bacon. >> oh, no. >> next year is now unavoidable. >> let's go stock up on bacon. >> we will talk to bill clinton coming up at cgi and i'll ask him about obesity and he will see it as one of the key issues. our country's national security and health. >> i'm willing -- >> the first question is the last question. >> i've interviewed him on this before. he's really good on it. i'm sorry, it's terrible, i have a problem. >> i'll be in to see how the president addresses the pork shortage at the u.n. today. >> he'll be a lot more concerned about that. >> right now john favro is redoing the remarks in light of the news. i think you've got to lead with this. don't you, jon?

>> you lead from behind on the pork. >> okay. >> you are -- >> i'm thinking of a word i can say on television to sum up what i think of you all today. but anyhow, i'm sure you don't care. move on to politico. >> how about jim vandehei? he's here. he's not a happy camper. >> they love bacon. >> bacon sandwich. >> did he sleep last night because of the fury of the football? >> no, he's enraged. >> nice. >> that game last night. >> it was a joke. three different calls in the final two minutes cost us a victory that could easily keep us out of the playoffs. not only did we have the interception. >> it's the third week. >> the guy pushed him right before he made the interception. before that, we had a crystal clear, clean defense on our db, and they call us for pass interference and that joke of a roughing the passer when we had an interception. give me a break. i'm done with the nfl.

done until we get refs. >> right. >> that's it. finally got that off my mind. >> willie, can we talk about scott brown? >> boy that scott brown race, holy cow, that's crazy. >> i thought we would have been over this native american question, but apparently it's coming back. >> elizabeth warren, senator scott brown is getting personal. it has to do with elizabeth warren's claims of native american heritage. both sides are airing out the debate in tv buys across the state. >> i'm scott brown and i approve this message. >> elizabeth warren is trying to put questions about her heritage behind her. >> she admitted to identifying herself as native american to employers. she's facing tough questions about whether she claimed to be a minority for professional gain. >> warren did give an answer, the problem is, it keeps changing. >> is there anything else that will come out about you that we don't already know? >> you know, i don't think so,

but who knows. >> as a kid, i never asked my mom for documentation when she talked about our native american heritage. what kid would? but i knew my father's family didn't like she was part cherokee and part delaware. my parents had to elope. i never asked for and never got any benefit because of my heritage. the people who hired me all said they didn't know about it. i'm elizabeth warren, i approve this message. scott brown can keep attacking my family, but i'm going to keep fighting for yours. >> for people who didn't watch the debate, why are we back on this issue in the state of massachusetts now? >> because scott brown brought it up at the top of the last debate they had. and i think the reason he did bring it up, you have to pull back the lens on what's happening politics since the democratic convention. the surge you've seen for barack obama and people feeling the country's going in the right direction and democrats unifying, they've seen the same thing take place in massachusetts, wisconsin, and some of these other senate races

where the numbers have been going down for the republican candidate. so scott brown with good favorable ratings in the state but running in a very democratic state knows that he's downright now. and he has to do something to rattle warren. he has to do something to shake up this race so he went after her on that hard. it's kind of hard to believe this would be the make or break issue in the most competitive senate race that we have in the country this year, but clearly he thinks it's something that could change it. >> mike, what's the state of play in your home state of massachusetts. we had a poll that showed elizabeth warren up several points, now scott brown ahead by a couple of points. where are we right now? >> well, as jim pointed out, the president is going to crush governor romney in romney's home state, by 25 to 30 points. that's an enormous hill for scott brown to climb. he raises a point of vulnerability with elizabeth warren's candidacy.

the native american claim back and forth that's been going on about that. his -- the danger for scott brown in this is that as jim again pointed out, he has a very high favorability factor in the state. but he's changing his personality now in the minds of a lot of voters to attack elizabeth warren on this. and it'll be interesting how it plays out. i think it's jump ball right now. >> stick around and watch our next segment, we're going to replay and relive the nightmare of the packer game last night. thanks so much for the politico playbook. the officials a month ago were calling children's pee-wee games, it wasn't that bad. and the finish that has jim vandehei cursing the officials. [ woman ] ring. ring. progresso.

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all right. we talked about at the top of the show, the criticism of the nfl's replacement refs is goinging to light up. a sloppy sunday, another one a couple days ago. last night we have a problem. the seahawks and packers, the game decided by the officials. packers trail 7-6, punch it in there, miss a two-point conversion, up 12-7 with just under nine minutes to go. first play of the next possession, the seahawks quarterback rolls out, throws an interception deep in his own territory. >> that's going to finish it. >> that's going to set up a field goal, put it away for the packers, but we've got a flag on the field. they call this roughing the passer. >> that's not roughing the passer. >> you know what we call that in northwest florida? >> tackle. football. yeah. >> roughing the passer. >> let's get the ball back. skip ahead to the end of the game.

eight seconds left, still 12-7. last play. >> the packers playing at the goal line as wilson struggles to keep it alive, the game's final play to the end zone, which is -- fumbled by tate with jennings simultaneous, who do they give it to? touchdown! one guy goes with touchdown, the other said no time. it has to be looked at because it's a score. still have an official doubter in the pile. >> mike tarico on the call on espn. jennings of the packers comes down with the ball, but golden state has a piece of it too, there are the officials say touchdown, the other does not. it's ruled a touchdown on the field, then the officiating crew took more than ten minutes to review this. they came back here with the

call to decide the game. >> the call on the field stands, touchdown. >> seahawks win in the most bizarre finish you'll ever see. >> mike, i tell you, that's two of the worst calls at the end of the football game i can remember. >> wow. >> but the game didn't end there. the packers headed into the locker room. they had to come out because by rule you have to kick the extra point after a touchdown, so they did that, all 11 packers run back on the field. seahawks win 14-12. even the final page of the times confesses hawks steal one said the seattle newspaper. in baseball, orioles split a double header, yankees win, up a game and a half in the east. >> come on, birds. when we come back, the most powerful women in business. we'll take a look at who's topping the analyst. we'll do that with andy serwer when "morning joe" comes right back. [ ross ] in the taihang mountains of china,

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live shot of the capitol. a beautiful morning in washington. welcome back to "morning joe" at 46 past the hour. here with us now, we have managing editor of "fortune" magazine, andy serwer. the magazine's new issue is "50 most powerful women." >> what number is mika? >> almost. she's almost -- >> you know what, actually, it's an awesome issue. and she's so awesome. this is great. >> i do want to get another must-read in here. be quiet. >> i'm just saying, if you're not on the list, it's not a good list. >> why is serwer here? >> i like you. and i think you made great decisions. only time for small talk.

the candidates tell you that this campaign is about big issues. >> oh. >> you believe that, you're being snooki'ed. he's made time to do interviews with leno, david letterman, and people magazine in addition to kelly and michael. obama hasn't held a formal news conference in months but he's found places on his calendar for leno, letterman, and "the view." in this jersey shore culture, it's perhaps inevitable that candidates would try to reach voters by chatting about the banal and prurient. >> i think somebody should do a content analysis, though. let's take, seriously, take all the interviews that people are criticizing in the pop culture

venues and compare substantially. >> he doesn't want to get caught. he doesn't want to ask, you know, have to ask serious questions. >> i think that's a snobbish point. >> wow. okay. >> well, i disagree. i mean, why is he shying away from the "new york times," "morning joe," "fortune" and all that. the president. >> i mean the press conference point. i think -- >> press conferences are kind of huey, i don't disagree with that. but he won't do the more serious news organizations, it's a fact. >> and -- we've been hearing this and complaints from a lot of reporters for the past year, year and a half that he won't go to established media outlets and they will all say but we're not going to say anything because if we criticize him, then he won't -- makes us look bad

number one, and two, we'll be on the list where they don't let us -- >> although some people say things, chuck todd has written things about the frustration about getting access to the president. >> what am i missing here. >> that's out there. but it should be pointed out that mitt romney's not doing a ton -- >> they both do "60 minutes." >> that's what we're saying. "60 minutes," we're talking about serious news. >> exactly. >> have either of them done "fortune?" >> he has. barack obama did last election, not this election. mitt romney did this election. >> all right. well, let's talk about the "fortune" magazine's issue of the 50 most powerful women. there is, of course, a gigantic asterisk by this list as there would be by any home run -- >> you guys are making fun of me. stop it right now. >> on the cover. >> she's not on this list. but let's talk about number two

to number 51. who are they? >> well, first of all, couple big take aways. these are serious companies. 20 years ago, women weren't running big companies like this, but you have dupont, kraft, hewlett-packard, a lot of technology companies and also a lot of women in waiting. there are people in very serious positions at gm, general dynamics and other companies. so this list is going to -- >> who comes in at number one? >> ginny romete, the new ceo of ibm, the 19th biggest company in the united states. she's 55 years old, so more than half of her life. she's worked there, the 19th biggest company in the world. >> and over that time, she's seen a company dominate the market, be seen as passe and long in the tooth, and then completely reinventing them. the ibm story is just -- i think it's one of the remarkable

rebranding stories in american -- >> you know your ibm history. >> and i'm dead serious, it's a thrilling story -- >> it was a near death experience. >> it was a near death experience and they reinvented themselves. not a lot of glitz, not a lot of glamor, they did things right and they saw, they looked forward and, wow. >> lou and sam pamasano, it's a great story. >> we write all these stories, fools rush in and talk about all these horrible decisions that have been made corporate wise, the ibm story's a story that needs to be written about more. and number two, holding steady, she's been around for a while. >> she's come under fire. the company has not been firing on all sicylinders i guess you could say. pepsi in the united states has not done so great, but globally it's big, and mika, she's been focusing on healthier foods.

>> yeah. but they still make pepsi? >> yeah, they do. >> and you have meg whitman number three? >> that company has yet to turn the corner, but this is a huge job. >> huge job. she lost a lot of money running for governor in california. and number eight cheryl sandberg lost a lot of money just being in facebook. >> yeah. she's also on the board of disney, people don't realize that. >> very quickly, is there -- reading this list, what's the lesson? what do you say? this is a path to success. >> the big thing is, there's this opportunity out there. where there wasn't in our generation. i mean, if you were a young woman going to school, you could maybe look to become the head of hr at one of these companies or the head of marketing, and now you can shoot for the top. and these people will tell you it's challenging. she made this her second career that it's very, very difficult

to raise a family and run one of these organizations, but it can be done. >> okay. the new issue of "fortune" is the 50 most powerful women in business. thank you so much. >> thank you so much for having me. still ahead, bill clinton and tony blair. >> i don't see mika on this list. >> we'll be right back.

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able to participate in their own governance. but i was pretty serve and continue to be pretty certain there are going to be bumps in the road. >> he said the developments in the middle east are bumps in the road. >> yeah, that was my reaction. bumps in the road. we had an ambassador assassinated, we had a muslim brotherhood member elected to the presidency of egypt. 20,000 people have been killed in syria. these are not bumps in the road. these are human lives, these are developments we don't want to see. this is time for the president who will shape events in the middle east, knot just be merciful or at mercy of the events in the middle east. >> welcome back to "morning joe," jon meacham is still with us and joining us now is the middle east envoy, former prime

minister tony blair. good to have you here. >> i said make him envoy to the middle east, everything will calm down. >> i know. it's amazing, everybody listens to you and takes your ideas and runs with them. >> placid, beautiful lake in a swanny -- blessed are the peacemakers. >> except in this case. >> for they shall be sent to hell. i mean, in this case. let's start with syria. 20,000 dead, assad just showing complete contempt for the civilized world and it seems like we feel leaders in the west that say there's very little we can do but sit back and let this play out. i mean, i can't imagine you and bill clinton would've sat back and done nothing in this environment. >> yeah. they're doing a lot to try and support the opposition and create the space in which you

can get a solution to it. but the real problem in syria is that if this just carries on, it'll go even deeper in to what will be a civil war that can spill out into surrounding countries. i think there is a need to look at what more we can do to create, for example, places of safety for the opposition. and to make it clear that it's a matter of time. actually that message is being delivered very strongly by your government, the european governments, as well. the other change there is in the region, frankly, now there's a lot of support from many of the surrounding countries in the region for a change of regime and the replacement of it with something that is democratic and stable. >> what are some of your suggestions to provide the safety for the oppositions. to do some more to provide the space? >> i think what people are looking at. whether it's possible to create areas within syria in which the opposition can move and we can

give them some protection. the truth is what assad is doing is basically using his air power to attack the people, to attack the civilians because he can't hold the territory anymore on the ground. look, i think this is going to be long, drawn out, bloodied. this is the nature of these things, but i do believe in the end he will go -- >> assad must go and he will go you believe. >> i will go in the end because he's lost the support of the majority of the people and ultimately not able to hold territory. he can go in and destroy a lot and kill a lot of people, was can't hold the territory. >> from syria to egypt, a lot of americans concerned at how long it took morsi to step out and condemn the heinous attacks, the vile attack attacks on the u.s. embassy. should we be concerned? or is this a new leader trying to get his sea legs and balance forces? i've come back from my 88th

visit to the region. i'm there the whole time. you rightly point out that i've produced a great deal of stability there. >> thank god you're there. >> it's going well. it's going well. >> and so what you see everywhere, basically, is a region in turmoil. and the way i think is sensible for us to look at it is you've got a struggle between two groups of peoplement one group of people are people who want modern, open societies and open economies, and the other are people who often base themselves on the wrong-headed view of religion, extreme, narrow-minded and so on. and you see it play out in libya with the tragic death of your ambassador there, it play out in egypt, yemen, syria, iraq. afghanistan, pakistan. this is a battle going on in which i think what we have to do is be there on the side of the modern minded sensible people. it's going to be a very tough

struggle in the meantime. >> how much about the way we look at these countries is colored by the last decade of experience in afghanistan and iraq. here in america and great britain, their civilians have been killed in these wars, we don't have the stomach to put our men and women in harm's way. do you think that colors the way president obama views these decisio decisions? >> well, it's always better to have a coalition together. but i think what's happening which is different now in the past couple of years from the previous ten is that we interveinte interve intervened, and so on. this time, it is -- these uprisings are coming from the street. these oppressive regimes are being cast off. but what we learned about the societies and i think you can see this very clearly from afghanistan, from iraq. when you lift the lid of this

repression off out come pouring these religious, tribal, ethnic problems. the good news for us, by the way, is in each of these countries, there is probably a solid majority for sensible, open-minded politics. but there is a very powerful minority often based on a warped view, perverted view of religion that wants to take those societies back. i think this is a different form of engagement for us today. we've got to stay engaged. i think as your president's been saying long-term, this will work out. short-term, it's going to be tough. but we've got to hang in there and actually support those people who are trying to reach for a better form of life and the type of democracy and the type of values we believe in. >> you talk about lifting the lid, is there any good or clean way out of afghanistan? >> again, it is bound to be messy. >> right. >> because you've got these people exploiting the situation. but every time you look at what

is bad, you've just got to put on the other side of the equation something more positive. in afghanistan, these terrible killings where afghan soldiers actually kill those americans or british or nato troops alongside them. and on the other side of that, you've got afghan soldiers dying for the same type of values we believe in. in libya, the terrible killing of chris stevens, your ambassador there, but then thousands of people come out on the street in libya marching in support of america and decrying those people killed him. all around the world, you've got two forces battling it out. i think we're in a different phase now where this is about supporting and engaging these people and giving them a sense that in the end these growing pains, if you like, of a proper, democratic free society are going to be there, but they've got to hang on in there and take the right decisions and we've got to support them doing it. >> jon meacham? >> in america, sort of the

conventional wisdom in the last decade was toward the end of the decade. and the end of president bush's second term. our prestige, broadly put, was at a low ebb around the world. and one of the arguments for the current administration when it was trying to become the current administration was it would raise american prestige and reestablish alliances. assess that conventional wisdom, if you would. >> i think both bits of conventional wisdom are, you know, in doubt. the real thing for america and this is what i tried to say to americans based on my experience talking to people and being in different parts of the world, you know, if i were you, i would sort of give up on being loved. if that's your ambition as the world's -- still the world's greatest power-up, give up on it. it's not going to happen. >> that's a relief. >> yeah. >> can we adopt that personally

too? >> well, it's different from me. >> we had this conversation last hour. >> but actually, don't forget that underneath a lot of all that sort of anti-americanism, people out in the street burning the flags and all the rest, there's a huge residual respect for america and what it believes in. i just think, don't worry about whether from time to time you're going to get people coming out and saying terrible things about you. actually, that's far more a reflection of them, their society, the way they're growing up over a period of time. understand there are lots of people out there, particularly in the middle east region that want the same types of things we want and need support and help to get there. >> so given the conversation we had last hour, how would you describe president obama's approach? not to get into the politics of it, but there's a lot of criticism within this country given that there's a race going on. how would you characterize his approach to these percolating

crises across the middle east. >> i think his approach is right, which is essentially to say what i'm going to do as the president is support those movements for democracy and change in the region, but i'm going to understand that in this phase of change in the middle east, it is the people themselves who are going to create the politics that will take their country forward. and the role of american sense is to support that and give it help and in a way for america today the role is going to be to try to support those movements of change and allow them to take root so in the end moving forward over the medium term, these countries are the type of free and democratic countries they have to be in. >> you were talking about america not obsessing over being liked in that region. you've been there 88 times, you're in a great position to answer this question. last weekend i talked to a lot of people in the state department, a lot of people that had been working out there

region for a long time. you said and we sit here thinking, god, they hate us because of the drone attacks, they hate us because of waterboarding. and all of these officials who had been there for more than five years and really knew the region said they hate us because they hate us. they hate us because of like you said, a group with a warped view of religion. their religion. cultural pressures, peer pressures, and it seems these professionals are saying. just what you're saying. don't obsess on it. don't try to figure out what you did last week. it wasn't a videotape. it wasn't a drone attack. it wasn't waterboarding. they hate you because this group has hated you forever. you've got to work around it. >> yeah, and also because, by the way, what they represent and we represent are fundamentally different. >> right. don't share those values. the important point i'm sharing with you is, in each of these cases in each of these

countries, they don't feel like that. the people who go out in the street with a placard, they're not necessarily going to get elected next week, you know what i'm saying? >> exactly. >> there is in the region an anti-americanism feeling that has been fueled over a long period of time. increasingly you do have within the region, people standing up within these societies and saying, no, it's not america's fault we have a problem. it's our fault we've got a problem. let's sort it out. >> we heard yesterday, mr. prime minister, but we hear every year at this time, president ahmadinejad calling for israel to be wiped off the map. prime minister netanyahu has made very public pressure on president obama to do something. to help them along. as you assess the situation and relative to past points where we've come close, how close are we to military conflict between aar iran and israel? >> well, it's a huge challenge for us, because iran with a

nuclear weapon as the president's made clear is unacceptable. and iran continues to move towards it. and so we have a possibility of the sanctions and the negotiations and so on bringing pressure to bear on the iranian regime, but in the end, they're going to have to back off. what's happening in iran is -- ahmadinejad himself is an interesting study because that also is the same type of forces. and in iran, by the way, if there were a free election in iran, these people would be out. they wouldn't be governing. so even in iran, you've got a large number of people, you've got a large number of people who are on the side of freedom and openness and tolerance and so on. unfortunately, they're not the ones in power right now. >> shouldn't the american people think of this as more than rhetoric? are we closer now than we have been in the past? >> it's not just rhetoric. i think your president means it, i think the world community means it. >> and we'll be seeing you over at cgi today.

you're here for climate week. tell us about it. >> we're here to keep the issue as much as we can on the center stage rather than off to the side. and in the middle east and africa. >> all right. tony blair, thank you so much for coming in. >> and congratulations. new castle. playing well. >> we're doing well. absolutely. glad you're following it. >> yeah, well, i'm actually following liverpool more. it's not really good. worst start in 100 years. what are you going to do about that? i'm not going to -- >> my wife's from liverpool, so my wife's a liverpool fan, my oldest son is a liverpool fan, my youngest son is a liverpool fan. >> so you hear them weeping -- >> but i'm a new castle fan, so i don't mind. >> there actually are quite a few people across the world that watch this show that will understand about this. but can you -- extraordinary what happened at liverpool this past week, the 96 people crushed

back in 1989, a cover-up for 20 years and justice for the families of these people. just extraordinary. even the son, even the sun apologizing to liverpool. >> it was a terrible tragedy, and there was horrible stuff that turned out to be completely untrue. still ahead, we'll talk to former president bill clinton. get ahold of yourself. >> what you talking about? >> also former governor jeb bush will be here onset. up next, chuck todd and eugene robinson. >> chuck todd, for the record, not a soccer fan. >> no. he makes fun of it. ♪ leaving my homeland

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yes, it is. - one serving of cheese is the size of four dice. one serving of cereal, a baseball. and one serving of fruit, a tennis ball. - you know, both parties agree. our kids can be healthier... the more you know. ♪ i'm very pleased with the fact that we have a campaign that is taking our message to the people across america.

and look, we're going to win. there's no question in my mind. we're going to win. the polls go up, polls go down, some weeks i'm ahead, some weeks i'm behind. you know, all these states that voted for barack obama last time right now the majority of people in those states are saying they don't want to vote for barack obama. >> hey, welcome back to "morning joe." a beautiful shot of washington, d.c. it's a shame nothing gets done. you know what? we should put something. put something on the spot there that can make america a better place. >> one of the great public golf courses, haynes point, right there. >> maybe a chick-fil-a. >> they should play instead of what they do in the capitol. >> exactly, exactly. with us now, we've got columnist, associate editor of the "washington post" and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson. chuck todd will be with us in a moment. he's probably sending a cash payment, gene, to the latest

university of miami recruit. we've got an awful lot to talk about. but let's begin since we've got the clinton global initiative and everybody coming in. let's begin with this back and forth between president obama and mitt romney with barack obama describing the events in the middle east as a bump in the road. mitt romney jumped on it. and i would suggest -- and i've got to say for my democratic friends, after weeks of wailing against mitt romney's ineptitude and to foumbling around, i woul say that was a mistake for the president to say. do i have a point there or not? do you think i've been off? >> i wouldn't have used the phrase bump in the road. but the general idea that u.s. policy in the region, the president i think was saying

essential hily believes we havee cataclysmic change taking place there. there's no easy way to charter course through that doesn't involve some trouble somewhere along the line. i think you could have used a better phrase than bump in the road when you're talking an about ambassador that was killed. but if you're talking about continuity of policy and the fact that we're -- there will be ups and downs and -- and sh -- and there's no way for us sitting in washington or in the united states or anywhere else to decide which directions these countries move at any given day and, you know, the anti-american mob, the pro-american mob, we're not in control of all that and we're not going to be. >> you know, chuck -- >> hello, chuck. >> -- who will support anybody on the republican side attacked me this last week for criticizing mitt romney's press

conference on monday. it is stunning how many people in the romney campaign at the top of the romney campaign are going, oh, we made a terrible mistake there. and we've been focused on that. but that said, barack obama's approval ratings on foreign policy, actually, are going down. this chaos seems to be filtering through and having an effect. >> well, it does. and i think somebody said it really well. it was on on this show last week. >> it was probably me. i'm sure it was -- >> it had to be somebody else. it had to be somebody else. when americans lives get lost, the american public tunes in to foreign policy. foreign policy -- when it doesn't get forced into the living room, when they don't see -- >> i don't know about that. afghanistan. >> sort of when does it sort of get forced in the forefront? when lives are lost. you know, some high-profile american life was lost. >> and by the way, they've tuned

out afghanistan. >> they have. >> so when -- which is a disgrace. but, when you see a u.s. ambassador killed and dragged through the streets of benghazi, they pay attention. >> they do. and it's interesting here. i think that, i get what the president is doing politically this week, right? which is do no harm, make as little news as you possibly can. don't schedule any meetings, but it is viking. we went back to check president bush's schedule september 2004, middle of a re-elect. yes, foreign policy was more at the forefront than the economy. he had one-on-one bilateral meetings with pakistan, india, iraq, afghanistan. and, you know, yes you could look back and say politically that made sense for him. it is weird for the president of the united states, all these world leaders in town, not one, not one one-on-one. and you're like going, and you end up on the view. again, i get the politics of it and they've made the decision

saying, well, we'll take the heat from all of you media elites attacking us on this because we don't want to create any news before -- >> it's cynical. so what you said and what the "new york times" is writing about today that this president not only does he not have personal relationships with even democrats in the united states senate as your story told and certainly republicans, but also foreign leaders are -- he just doesn't -- has not built these relationships and doesn't seem to want to. >> yeah. >> hasn't scheduled a single meeting with a foreign leader this week. >> a really interesting question which we talk about sometimes is why is it that so many introverts go into politics and do well? and barack obama and jimmy carter, richard nixon, these are folks who get the ultimate prize but are fundamentally introverted personalities, right? president obama by no account would enjoy being in a big,

crowded room unless it was with some distance. >> i think all presidential nominees have a genetic disorder. >> there is sort of -- >> it could be learned. >> but they're not like us, let's not pretend. it is different. >> speaking of genes -- >> to me, it's a really interesting historical question why these folks choose this business and do pretty well but got the natural kind of tragic limit. >> yeah, it does. so, gene, what about this point about the president not scheduling any meetings with foreign leaders? obviously the polar opposite of the guy we're interviewing next hour, bill clinton. >> well, you know, i think there are two possibilities. and i'm not sure i buy either one. one is that it is strictly a political decision not to make news. but, you know, the other is that

there's nothing to talk about. and clearly, there's a lot to talk about, right? with, you know, you could talk over like the arab spring and afghanistan and this and that with a bunch of leaders, not to mention the world economic crisis. so i do think it's odd that there are no bilaterals, there usually are bilaterals. and they have potential for going wrong. but they also have potential for advancing u.s. interests. >> you know, chuck, apart from not having any bilateral meetings here in new york this week while he's here, this white house, though, clearly must h e have, i would think, a sense that the world, the middle east especially is far different today than it was five years ago. >> sure. and that our role in the world and the middle east has got to change drastically and be reduced. >> well, i think they are trying

to change it. and look, the one of the interesting alliances and relationships and we're sitting here talking about presidential relationships he's developed in the middle east is the president of turkey. the turks are making a bigger play in the middle east, becoming more -- look, they're right now the most important ally that the syrian -- the syrian militants revolting against assad. to go back to this, i think the one where i'm sort of stunned, to me the most -- forget the politics of netanyahu, that's a whole -- we know that's -- we know what that is. that's rhetorical sort of cynical politics that's going to campaign politics about should he meet with netanyahu. they do talk all the time. but a one-on-one meeting that seems necessary to me is the new president of egypt. that is one. and i can just see republicans saying, oh, my god -- they probably feel like they do need

to meet with him, they can't because it becomes this political issue and the republicans go, oh, look at the president meeting with the muslim brotherhood. this is an important relationship to figure out. >> i've got a shocking suggestion, meet with each one of them for 15 minutes just to meet them. >> that's what i expected to happen. >> i met with netanyahu, the new president of egypt, now would be a good time to -- >> let's take them golfing, that makes a lot of sense. >> i've got to say, there are times you mount good defenses of the president, today is just sheer desperation. >> no, it's not. >> makes me sad, actually. you are -- you are the boston red sox of political analysis this morning. >> were you just talking? >> why are we trashing nfl officials? >> oh, my lord. can you believe that?

>> frothing at the mouth. i couldn't sleep until 2:00 in the morning. >> can you believe that last night? >> that's the meeting the president should be having today, meeting with the nfl. >> that's right. >> and romney or obama, the one that figures this out carries wisconsin. >> that is true. that would put wisconsin in to play. >> if only the nfl made a little bit of money they could pay their referees. >> poor nfl. >> just $9.8 billion something like that. come on, pay the refs, get them back on. somebody's going to get hurt is the problem. they're really going to get hurt and this is out of hand. >> we're going to see you on "the daily rundown." >> we had sound bites. >> really, so you had sound bites? >> which means if he had sound bites that means what he didn't have, t.j. >> oh, wow. >> well, we did and that was not pretty. >> here we go. >> we didn't have sound bites,

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♪ up next, former florida governor jeb bush joins the table. keep it right here on "morning joe." [ male announcer ] wouldn't it be nice if there was an easier,

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here with us now, jeb bush at the table. good to have you here in the studio. >> thank you, mika. >> you, of course, are here for education nation among other things. how is it going down there? i heard you're partying late in the night last night. >> talking about career education and higher education at 8:30. i don't call that a party.

but it was a lot of fun. >> sounds like a great time. >> you started talking about education reform back in 1994, you continued it for a long time. i'm sure you were doing it before your first campaign. and education nation comes every year and we talk about it. a lot of times we're talking about this thing. are we making progress? the only measurement that matters is student learning. some places are, some aren't. >> who is doing it right? >> indiana, louisiana, florida, delaware, i'm not sure why but delaware has had significant learning gains. these are places where new york city has done over the last ten years has done a good job. >> by the way, the governor of delaware says he's got a great relationship with the teachers unions there. that they're working together. there's a partnership. what about florida? what's happened since you implemented your reforms back in '99?

>> they're looked at as a place you can go and see how you can narrow the achievement gap. our graduation rate has gone up every year for the last 12 years straight. we're more or less at the national average now. but this is like comparing in the land of midgets, you know, being slightly larger than the smallest guy. we should benchmark ourselves to the world. we need to focus on making this national purpose. only a third of our students after we spend more per student than any country in the world graduate college and/or career ready from high school. >> what do you make about chicago? and what happened? >> disappointing. the union has every right to represent the economic interests of adults and the mayor's got a

duty to balance his budget and so it's logical you'd have a fight over this because they have a structural problem there, but where's the strategy to make sure that poor kids gain the power of knowledge? chicago's results are abysmal. when you compare them to new york, they're not cutting it. or compare them to miami-dade county where you have low-income kids doing significantly better. the strategies of learning are separate from the strategies of negotiating higher pay and greater job protection. >> and in chicago, we've got the highest paid teachers in america and some of the worst results. >> and gets to the point you alluded to, the degree of difficulty, the cultural degree of difficulty in dealing with the kids from, you know, sometimes single parent homes, sometimes no-parent homes. talk about that a bit. >> well, the problem is, we see this and we go, well, we can't have the same high expectations for the newly arrived kid or the child that's living in the inner

city as we do for parents or children of parents of higher income. and we end up creating this dual system and it's completely wrong. it doesn't work. we need to have higher expectations for everybody. we need to empower parents to be much more engaged in their learning. students need to be more engaged in their learning. and the idea that somehow a kid in poverty can't learn what's expected of them is damning. yesterday it was announced in washington, d.c. they're seeking a waiver from the race to the top funding where they're going to create lower standards for african-american kids and hispanic kids than anglo kids. you get what you measure. and that perpetuates a problem that is damning for a country that is theoretically, at least, aspirational in nature. we can play like we're exceptional, really, but if you

limit people's ability to move up and education now is kind of the leading indicator of that. i'm not sure how exceptional that is. >> governor, over the weekend there was an interesting piece about what we need to do. and he pointing to returning prestige to the teacher profession, which is to say make it more difficult to become a teacher in college. make it like becoming a lawyer or doctor, pay more then at the end of that. why can't we, and i understand budgets and i understand the fiscal community, the climate we live in right now. why can't we pay teachers more and pay them what they deserve to be paid? how do we make that more attractive for someone graduating college? >> that would start, by the way, in the schools of education where a majority of the school of education graduates are not in the top half or the top quartile of the students that entered university. so i think it starts on an even earlier bays is. i think you pay teachers more, you give them the deal, if

students learn more, you get paid more. that's complicated, but it's doable. particularly now with the new assessment tools that exist. so if a student, if you're in front of 150 students during the semester and 90% of them are having learning gains of a year and your counterpart next door is getting 30% or 20% of the students and is pretty consistent, obviously the teacher that has mastered his or her art should be rewarded significantly. if you're teaching in more difficult schools, you should be paid more. if you're teaching science and math, you should be paid more. differented pay is part of the argument that went on in chicago. >> why? why? why do they fight it? if a teacher is willing to -- >> it's called collective bargaining for a reason. >> if a young teacher's willing to go to the inner city and is a superstar and you have massive

gains for one class from one year to the next -- >> it's called collective bargaining. that's the answer, and the answer is if you're the teachers they most represent are the teachers that have been in the system longer. the rights to protect a teacher who gets laid off and automatically gets placed in another school even though they may not be achieving those kind of learning gains, those are negotiated collectively. the last-in, first-out is fought by the, you know, protected by the union so they can protect the teachers that pay the more dues. this is -- this is economics. this is not -- we shouldn't confuse the legitimate job of a union to represent the economic interests of a group of people. not just teachers, by the way, teachers union people represent bus drivers and other people, as well. from teaching, it's a totally separate subject. you can play like it is, you know, the same thing, but it isn't. >> it's just not. and we've got to figure out a way to reward the best and

brightest teachers, especially those that go in to inner cities. make great changes, make great gains. and it is, like you said, governor, it's complicated, but there are ways to measure. >> keep working through it. >> how minority students in the toughest areas make gains. >> and i would argue that middle class families think their students are doing okay because they're benchmarking themselves to the inner city. they're not. we need to benchmark ourselves to the best in the world. and we have to honestly say this should be something of national purpose. and frankly, it's the relatively exciting thing, i'm not -- i'm not naive about this. but this is a place where there's not as much partisan fighting, as well. >> right. >> this is almost switzerland. >> almost switzerland. >> former governor jeb bush, thank you so much. >> you bet, mika. >> great to have you in the studio. >> still ahead, we'll speak with former president bill clinton. when we come back, actress

goldie hawn is here to talk about her best-selling parenting book. keep it right here on "morning joe." now, that's what i call a test drive. silverado! the most dependable, longest lasting, full-size pickups on the road. so, what do you think? [ engine revs ] i'll take it. [ male announcer ] it's chevy truck month. now during chevy truck month, get 0% apr financing for 60 months or trade up to get the 2012 chevy silverado all-star edition with a total value of $8,000. hurry in before they're all gone! when you take a closer look... ...at the best schools in the world... ...you see they all have something very interesting in common. they have teachers... ...with a deeper knowledge of their subjects. as a result, their students achieve at a higher level. let's develop more stars in education.

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♪ in 1968 the world was introduced to a young actress named goldie hawn. she would never have to be reintroduced again. her career is littered with classics and hit tv shows and you can watch in a moment's

notice with a tivo dvr. her oscar winning performance in the 1969 film "cactus flower." nobody finds your entertainment like tivo. >> how about that? you go to tivo and can get the entire goldie hawn catalog. >> yeah, how exciting. >> joining us on the set is the actress goldie hawn and her new book, ten mindful minutes." it's now out in paper back. >> so fun to be back! hi. >> it's an interesting segue. we are talking about the teachers and what happens in the classroom and this strikes me as a piece of that or a companion to it. >> it was written because the terchs taking the mindup curriculum asked for something for themselves. i thought, well, okay, we are

working on our mindup family, parent book, which has subsequently happened for them to be taking as their children are taking the course but i wrote this first. and it really was adapted to the program. >> what are the ten mindful minutes? what should we be doing as parents? >> parents really, this is about attending. okay? so it's obvious that children attend. what does attention mean? because their brains are frenzied today and it's true. so are ours. so we are dealing with a lot of technology, a lot of things that are stealing, even the intimacy from our own children because our children are buried inside of these things. their social and emotional skills are compromised because of this. parents are working so you got two parents working usually. you've got some parents aren't even home at all. one parent family. children are dealing with also a lack of connection. right? connection is what creates

learning. when you now move into a classroom and you've got a frenzied child that comes into the classroom, whether their parents are breaking up, whether they are alone, whether there are issues with fears, even walking to school and getting shot, whatever they are dealing with, they are coming to school with an anxiety. you cannot learn when you have that. so when you say what are the ten things you do? first of all, there are ten results that you can have which is greater resilience, greater ability to self-regulate and ability to be able to reduce your stress and understanding what it is to connect and have empathy and all of this sounds, yeah, great. a mind who doesn't feel this, a mind who is not connected, this prefrontal area, because we teach our children how their brains work because it gives them context to their emotions. context to how they learn. so when they quiet down the

bulldog and they are emotional, friend the prefrontal opens and that is where they learn, that's where they think, that's where they analyze and that's how they remember so you have to calm down to do it so we are giving these children these tools. >> quiet down the bulldog. >> with all of those issues and they are all out there, i understand that, but what do we do about a culture that doesn't allow children to be children for very long? >> exactly. this is one of the reasons i created the program, because it creates optimism and joy in the classroom. if our children aren't experiencing that in the class where they sense -- have a sense of freedom, they are not going to learn. they are going to hate school. they are not going to want to go to school. so we're dealing with a society now where you've got everything for them, where they are growing up too fast, they are not climbing that tree. they are not doing the things they should be doing. but at least we can manage in the classroom with these various programs. i happen to love mindup program, we are also in miami and we are

all over the united states at the moment. probably 200,000 children now. >> that's great. >> and we are all over the world so now we have gone into the uk and canada and australia and asia. the return for children to pull back to a sense of optimism and joy and hopefulness and something we can do in the classroom when the tercachers embody the program. what jeb is saying is right. our teachers have to be better educatored. who is taking care of the hearts and minds of our children and this is what is wrong. when you look at my schools are broken but you can say you can build a great school but how are you going to put a child in there who is broken? are they going to learn in that fabulous school? because they are not equipped to learn. so i think we have to look at this from a very -- a systemic problem that we have in the

united states and globally, the developed countries. we have a couple of great areas in denmark and sweden with great areas of education. >> it's much more about one test. it's about anxiety, as you say. it's about being creative and so much more to creating a whole child. goldie hawn, the book is "ten mindful minutes." >> thank you so much. >> joe and mika talk to president bill clinton coming up. thanks again. the book again, "ten mindful minutes." we will be right back. >> as if 32 acting roles weren't enough for a career, goldie hawn can claim producer and singer and director to her credits. if you had veto premier to search the web simultaneously to dial up her entire career in a single minute you could hear her

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♪ good morning. it's 8:00 on the's a 8:00 on th and 5:00 on the west coast. back on the set we have mike barnicle and jon meachem. we have a lot to get to

including mayor bloomberg and birth control and scott brown is getting desperate. >> let me ask willie a question here. can i ask you something, willie? we understand now in new york city that little kids are being handed out -- >> we are going to get to that. that was a tease. we are not telling the story now. >> then i'm going to ask the question. >> that is telling the story but go ahead. >> they are letting little kids and we will tell you how they are doing it. like the morning after pills. like in pez dispensers. my question is do they get detention if they drink the morning after pill down with a big gulp? >> that is the new york double whammy. mika will explain the story. they put a flyer in your backpack and it's an opt out flyer. >> morning after pill is like 40-year-old women couldn't get those things a couple of years ago. >> like i said we are going to talk about that coming up. >> dispenser -- >> as well as scott brown

getting desperate coming up. >> it's inappropriate, willie. these are young kids. >> but we will start with politics this morning. mitt romney and paul ryan continue their bus tour through ohio today. the republican candidate was asked about his recent poll numbers and why he continues to trail in many critical swing states. >> i am very pleased with the fact that we have a campaign that is taking our message to the people across america and, look. we are going to win. no question in my mind, we're going to win. the polls go up. polls go down. some weeks i'm ahead and some weeks i'm behind. you know, all of these states that voted for barack obama last time, right now, the majority of people in those states are saying they do not want to vote for barack obama. >> okay. what is next? barack obama should be ashamed of himself. >> wait a minute. >> go ahead. >> who? >> this is close. go ahead. >> president obama is in new york city for the united nations general assembly and the clinton

global initiative which we are going to this morning. >> are we really? >> so your boyfriend. but one of his first orders of business was taping an interview with the women of "the view" alongside the first lady. among the topics -- >> can i ask a question? this guy is not giving serious interviews to anybody. >> who? >> barack obama, the president of the united states. >> really opportune time. >> he is going to all of these polices. no time for netanyahu but time for "the view". >> no time for netanyahu? >> i know. wally from "leave it to beaver" was in that, no time no netanyahu. >> was jerry mathers? >> was asked about the null released tax returns. just take a look. >> governor romney on "60 minutes" was asked does he think it's fair that he pays a lower

tax rate than somebody who is making $50,000 a year. he said yes, i think it's fair and i also think that is the way you get economic growth. i have a different vision how we grow an economy. i think, barbara, you grow an economy from the middle out, not from the top down. >> let me ask you, jon. do you think the president was more presidential on "the view" or on "entertainment tonight"? >> i think "the view." >> i like "the view." >> a long tradition of this. >> fdr on "the view"? >> you should have seen -- >> he was on "inside edition", i think. >> it was william howard taft on "the chef." ." first of all, it's "the women of the view" and you like that. >> i like "the view." >> you reach a mass audience

with what you have to say when you go on "the view." >> i'm not disparaging the view. i love "the view." >> why can't it be a serious interview on "the view "? you just said he is not doing serious interviews when he is on "the view." >> but that is really not what you were saying. i think you ought to rephrase the whole thing. just be quiet and change your tie. >> i like my tie. >> don't worry about that. >> hillary clinton was fantastic yesterday and she was talking taxes. not just president obama is doing that. she weighed in -- >> this is the worst newscast we have ever had! a grab bag. what is going on here? >> her husband's annual conference of world leaders and business politics and philanthropic. take a look. >> one of the issues i've been preaching about around the world is collecting taxes in an

equitable manner, especially from the elites in every country. i'm out of american politics, you know, but it is a fact that around the world, the elites of every country are making money. there are rich people everywhere. and, yet, they do not contribute to the growth of their own countries. >> i love her. she's right. >> there are rich people everywhere and the people is -- >> she's right. >> she's rich. >> what is your point? >> she's rich too. >> that is your comeback? >> she might get a challenge from the idea that rich people are not contributing at all to the growth of their countries and i think if she runs for president in 2016 you will probably see a lot of that clip. >> that's fine.

you know? hey, bill clinton does. >> saying it like it is. >> that's not like it is. if you want to go on a war against job creators, then go on a job against job creators. >> come on! seriously! it will all trickle down. it will all get to you, don't worry, like never! >> i tell you what we do. why not spend trillions and trillions of dollars and give it to the bureaucrats in washington, d.c.? it didn't. it's worse now than it's been but mitt romney is sharpening his attacks when it comes to president obama's handling of foreign policy. the republican candidate keyed in on this phrase that the president used during a "60 minutes" interview when talking about the recent unrest in the muslim world. >> i think it was absolutely the right thing for us to to do to align ourselves with democracy and universal rights and a notion that people have to be able to participate in their own

governance, but i was pretty certain and continue to be pretty certain that there are going to be bumps in the road. >> he said the development of the middle east are bumps in the road. yeah. that was my reaction. bumps in the road? we had an ambassador assassinated and 20,000 people have been killed in syria. these are not bumps in the road. these are human lives and developments we do not want to see! this is time for the president who will shape events in the middle east, not just be merciful or be at mercy of the event in the middle east. >> we talk about how mitt romney is out of touch all the time. i would say a president with problems in the middle east is bumps in the road is extraordinarily out of touch when you have a united states ambassador's remains scraped off ben ghazi and 20,000 killed.

syria, our closest ally in the middle east in open basic verbal war fare between their leader and our leader. you can go around the region. it's mass chaos. our troops are getting gunned down by supposed allies every day in afghanistan. these aren't bumps in the road. this is an absolute mess. paul ryan is right. this does have the feel of tehran, 1979. i'm not saying it's going to go that way. >> no. >> but you remember 1979. >> yeah. >> the chaos that ensued and this isn't it but this isn't a bump in the road. >> but this is not 1979. >> so paul ryan is not right. >> first of all, how do you know it's not 1979? you just said it wasn't and you just said it wasn't. >> >> i said it probably isn't. >> but we don't know that yet. if i'm president of the united states i don't do what jimmy carter says and call iran a sea of change like jimmy carter did in 1979.

the students were racing towards our assembly. >> isn't your line of issues rather than extracting what the president says during an interview and what the republican candidates view on what he said is, isn't the larger issue that both of these candidates have dismissed an obligation to the american people to talk to us about what they are doing? the president hasn't had a press conference. the president doesn't take serious questions from journalists. governor romney doesn't take serious questions from journalists. we don't have any specifics from governor romney or really the president. >> but on this issue, though, i think it is a serious problem when the president just talks about bumps in the road in the middle east. jon meachem, there is chaos. you got the leader of egypt who decides he has to wait a few days to protest riots in our embassy. you've got the muslim brotherhood seemingly gaining traction there. let's hope it turns out well. you have the president, i believe, making a terrible

mistake, sequestering whether each is an ally or not. you keep calling them your ally until there is no other option. 20,000 dead in syria. a u.s. ambassador killed in ben ghazi. they had all of the warning signs. the ambassador's own diary said he was fearful for his safety. the u.s. government given three days' warning that riots could ensue and people could be killed in the u.s. embassy. this isn't a bump in the road. i'm telling you, if mitt romney or a republican president said something like that, the mainstream media would be on fire! or as willie likes to say, in vuago, baby, in fuago. >> i can't count how many times willie has said that. to my mind, that is the most interesting thing because i don't think president obama thinks what has happened in the way you've put it are bumps in the road.

i don't think that mitt romney really, really believes that 47% of americans, if he becomes president, he is not going to worry about. i think that there is -- i think, at this point in the campaign, we're in a war of phrases and context is hugely important and you have to judge these guys, i think, on their whole campaigns, their whole lives and -- >> so is it safe to say that president obama was extraordinarilily naive as a candidate in 2008 when he told people, you know, if i just talk to the leaders of iran. >> yes. >> if i'm not nicer to them than george w. bush was nicer to them, because i'm embarrassed to be an american and the day i get elected because i live in a muslim country, they are going to be nicer to us? was that naive? >> i think that is evil. let's find all wrong words to use. >> yes, the way that is characterized is untrue. i asked the president once what would you do about israel if

they wanted to make a unilateral strike? i'm paraphrasing, we take no options off the table. i don't think this is a weak foreign policy president. >> that's why -- >> no, i agree. he's not a weak foreign policy president but it's a jumbled mess right now. >> here is the issue you raise here. "the new york times" today. above the fold, arab finds unrest. the tensions between mr. obama and the gulf states both diplomats say from a character trait. he has not built many personal relationships with foreign leaders. quote, he is not good with personal relationships. that's not what interests him, said one united states diplomat but in the middle those relationships are essential. it deprives d.c. the inability for leadership decisions.

that is at the core, i think, of a lot of what we have been talking about. >> we have been hearing, jon meacham, the president will go to a country and give a speech and then leave. i've heard from one diplomat after another he thinks the speech its itself is the means of an end and the opposite of what george w. bush did throughout his entire -- >> i'm not sure what your criticism is. >> my criticism he hasn't done a job that a commander in chief needs to do. >> he is weak on foreign policy? >> mika, i didn't say that. if you're trying to jump in to defend a defenseless president, get it right. i'm talking about what "the new york times" is writing. he doesn't build personal relationship and hurt us in washington and why we have a gridlock in washington and a mess in the middle east. whether you're talking about bill clinton, the guy who was a master! he was the master. bill clinton, george h.w. bush. they weren't afraid to talk to other politicians and leaders in way that build relationships so

when there is time of crisis, you know what? those -- whoa. >> those presidents -- >> ji say george w. bush. i said george h.w. bush and bill clinton. please. >> so skip one. >> please. >> the great bush 41 line was what do you do when you have a few minutes in the white house? you call an imir somewhere and say how is the weather in the desert? so you call some imir principal and it worked out. a great franklin roosevelt and you have to build signs. this is a science to master. i do think, mika, that has affected governance at home and abroad. there is too much anecdotal evidence. we talked about this the senate democratic caucus and a senator walking in said, i just read

that the president played 98 rounds of golf. i play golf. you guys play golf. anybody here play golf with the guy? >> when we come back, we will run across the street to the clinton global initiative so you and bill can suck to up each other. >> i don't know what you're talking about. >> coming up, former president bill clinton will join us. here is bill with a check on the forecast. we are watching the worst weather in the country this morning. illinois, louisville and over towards cincinnati we are watching showers and thunderstorms breaking out this morning. could see some possible airport delays in this region but the st. louis airport as of right now not reporting anything. the lightning strikes up to 6,000 or so. active lightning with the cell crossing the ohio rain. 1 to 2 inches in the lower ohio valley and beneficial rains for this region and should last about two days and eventually some of the wet weather will make its way towards washington, d.c. and pennsylvania but not

today. a warm day across the southern half of the country and on the west coast a little cool on the west coast. seattle all the way down to san francisco. next two days in a row, actually, highs in the six and some of that wet weather tomorrow has a chance of making its way to the eastern seaboard. so enjoy your day. ♪ leaving my homeland ♪ playing a lone hand ♪ my life begins today ♪ ♪ fly by night away from here ♪ ♪ change my life again ♪ ♪ fly by night, goodbye my dear ♪ ♪ my ship isn't coming ♪ and i just can't pretend oww! ♪ [ male announcer ] careful, you're no longer invisible

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>> and one of the issues that i have been preaching about around the world is collecting taxes in an equitable manner. especially from the elites in every country. you know, i'm out of american politics, but it is a fact that around the world, the elites of every country are making money. there are rich people everywhere. and, yet, they do not contribute to the growth of their own countries. >> maybe we should start there. welcome back to "morning joe." we ran across the street. we are live now at the clinton global initiative. joining us now is former president bill clinton. good to have you on the show this morning. >> thanks, mika. >> there is only one elite and only one topic to start there. >> what is that? >> i think probably is pressing on the president's mind more than anything right now. >> do you think joe talks too

much? >> the arkansas razor backs. it's bad down there. you have to go down there and coach. what do they do? >> doesn't seem like they have much of a line either side of the ball. that is what it looks to me like. they have got a great quarterback and three great receivers and nobody else playing real well. >> it's too bad. >> they have two great really good running backs and they are not doing so great this year, so i think it looks to me like a line problem but you know when you change -- i don't care what anybody says. you can't keep the same system exactly and work the same way if you change coaches and all of the things that happen to them. so i just think the defense showed weaknesses in the first game that they won handily. they would have won the second game if they hadn't knocked the quarterback back and now they played two good teams and couldn't win. >> chuck todd wants you to

resolve our nbc news political analyst and political director, wants you to resolve a very important crisis and that is, of course, the referee strike in the nfl. do you think cgi can take that one on? >> no, but i would not have called that last play they did in the seattle/green bay last night that they did. i think the packers will wake up this morning and say we should have won about two touchdowns and go on. it's all they can do. >> obviously, a lot -- so much going on in the world. over the past six months to a year, especially in the middle east region that you know so much about. but let's talk, first, about your focus here at cgi. you're talking about creating new ways to attack poverty, to attack disease with an emphasis on women and children. let's start there. how do we do that? >> well, we have some interesting commitments this year about what we try to do is

to argue that if you think about what you're doing in the first place, if you design these programs from the outset to deal with the shortage comings of the past, you get better results. it's a lot better than fixing them later. and that is true in the private sector as well as the public sector, so we opened up with the new president of the world bank, jim kim, who is partner with partners in health and he talked about designing good health systems that take into account women and the kids. the thing that astonished all over the world if poor countries you go one place to get your aids medicine and another to maternal health and another to be treated for malaria. there was no system so we started building health care systems for people you go one place and everything would be taken care of. we had an interesting commitment this year by a group called

daylos about they talked about they would work in america to redesign work spaces to solve health problems before they created to make them healthier in the beginning. we have a lot of commitments this year working on training and preparing women for the work force wherever they exist and their countries, and gap, for example, has done a really interesting thing and some of their agent work forces going right into the factories and training the women about how to handle their finances and how to move up into management from the factory floor, was something we don't think of women doing in poor countries. so there is -- what we are trying to get people to do is to think about how these systems work from the beginning. don't wake up ten years from now and say, we better go back and some of these women might have been really smart working in our plant, maybe we should have given them a chance. just have a management training program. have a ladder up everywhere in the united states and everywhere

else. >> you know the old coninstruct, obviously, was we saw a country in need and the federal government would just send aid. but now cgi, with the gates foundation, you have all of these public private partnerships and bill gates, i read last week, decided instead of just writing checks to end malaria, he tried to figure out a way to put together a plan that would actually make it sustainable in the marketplace. >> yeah. >> and so -- >> we work -- we worked on that, you know, because the problem with malaria is the old medicine almost everywhere in the world now, malaria is a determined malady. it morphed to rebut or repel the medicine, so now, almost all malaria in the world requires a much more expensive medicine. so we know we can prevent it with bed nets, as long as the

mosquitoes only come out at night. now increasingly, they are coming out in the day time. and so we have worked with them to try to figure out how to lower the cost of that malaria medicine and distribute it better the way we did with aids drugs. and it's a little more difficult because of a lot of things. there are not as many generic firms using the materials to make the generic medicine. in rewanda -- rwanda, you talk about u.s. aid. you were in congress. you know this. a lot of times congress will get upset about wondering about whether the aids -- so they require this or that or the other study to be done of all these programs but the net effect of it is that observe half of the money the taxpayers put up for foreign aid which is less than they think they do, which is 1% of the budget,

doesn't go to the country it's intended to, so we got 13 american medically schools to work, listen to this, for two years for 7% overhead. >> wow. >> 7% overhead to set up and train the entire rwanda health care system with a program they can afford to run with their limited resources. nothing quite like this has ever been done before. so we are also trying to help governments get more for their money and have a bigger impact and norwegians asked us to work and think the islands will be overrun by rising oceans if climate change keeps getting worse and we work for them for virtually no overhead. like we got to go raise the money to work for them, but if that is better than taking taxpayers money to spend on an ngo from another country instead of investigating it in the countries where you're trying to have an impact. >> mr. president, recognizing that you're in a unique position to comment on current event, given that your wife is

secretary of state, and you're a former president, i would like to ask you, though, about the headlines pertaining to the middle east. the president has received criticism for his comments saying the words bump in the road and paul iran even says his presidency is harkening back to 1979. how would you say he is handling the problems we see percolating in the middle east? >> first of all, i think they have done pretty well in a very chaotic situation. the arab frame would have bumps in the road or whatever you want to call it. in libya situation the loss of our ambassador and the other americans, it's worth pointing out just a couple of things. first of all, most of the libyan people who are away of what is going on like the united states they like the fact that we aggressively supported them in their desire to replace the gadhafi regime and decades of

control and repression and move to a more democratic system. the president of libya has asked to meet with mimeme. we are going to have a nice visit i think tomorrow. libyans who lost their lives in that attack trying to protect americans. and that is a different thing. i don't think -- that has, in my opinion, no relationship to what happened in iran which was all caught up with where the shah was going when he left iran, what is the reaction would be and if we had security. the ambassador did not want to be holed up in the embassy in tri tripoli. when you get of an old regime, you know one of the things they try to maintain control of was their security services for ovens reasons. every dictatorship does, right?

so they took down the old security service and they hadn't really -- had time to build up their own and there was a lot of weapons floating loose in the country, but i think the american people, for all of the tragedy here, could take a lot of comfort in the fact that libyan citizens stormed the offices of some of these militia groups to get the weapons out. they are trying to fix it. >> they forced a couple of them to shut down. >> yeah. >> they had peaceful sit-ins. >> absolutely. so i think that -- the story coming out of libya, we don't know how it's going to come out but the american people should be encouraged about that. the citizens rose up after the murder of the ambassador and said, you know, we don't want you to wreck our future. we want these weapons back. >> you mentioned iran. the president is also getting some criticism for for tnot mee

with netanyahu at this point in the game. >> i don't know what the facts are. it depends on whether there's something they haven't discussed that needs to be discussed in person. but if there isn't, i think it's understandable that every president and every israel prime minister normally wants to keep their options open. and it looks to me like -- didn't they say they talked for an hour on the phone just the last couple of weeks? i mean, i don't think -- there is a difference between symbolic and real -- i have not talked to hillary about this because i never want to know anything that i shouldn't be talking about on television, but it just looks to me like reading things that they have been talking about this a lot and that -- that both the united states and israeli security operations are fully conversant with whatever the facts are on iran and whatever they intend to do for the next

several weeks. looked to to me like, gwynne, just from observing it, the president was reluctant to have one meeting in a u.n. schedule where normally he'll have 15 because of the nearness of the campaign. >> what do you do in '96? you, obviously, met with leaders. >> i did. but i -- i didn't just meet with one. i think i spent the regular day here. but the campaign was in a different position in '96. i mean, we -- the survey said it wasn't that close and we were trying to get some specific things done in various countries that i thought it was -- >> so you don't think it's a mistake for the president to not take meetings? >> i think -- i think -- not necessarily a mistake if you're going to have a no-meeting policy just to go and leave.

i think it may have cost the united states more not to. and we know, for example, that they have been up to their ears in conversations with the egyptians over the aftermath of that. we know the president had a long talk with president morsi about the upsurge of the demonstrations in cairo over the film trailer and we know it produced some results. he took a much firmer stand after that conversation. and he is coming here today. the president of egypt. it will be interesting to see what he says. >> it's amazing. >> cgi. >> i was going to say cgi is like the al smith dinner. you got both candidates coming here. you got mitt romney coming this morning and right after that, the president. >> i invited him. i called him and invited him. we did it four years ago, remember? senator mccain came and brought governor palin with him. and if you look whatever you

think about his tax return, given a substantial amount of money to charity, he might want to talk about that today. >> i heard what the secretary said yesterday about elites not paying taxes. are you comfortable with a lot of the talk that's been going on, the democrat primary? and even at the democratic national convention that seemed to border on class war fare when you yourself said if america wants to be more competitive in the 21st century, we are going to have to lower corporate tax rates. if america is more competitive in the 21st century, we have to look at how we make this country more competitive -- >> i think lower the corporate tax rates but i think it's worth pointing out that of the 33 countries and oecd, the group of wealthier nations, only chile and mexico take a smaller percentage of income and taxes than we do. it's worth pointing out if you have a lot of money and you earn

only capital gains, you pay 15%, which is radically lower than the rates that any other advanced society -- >> should capital gains rates go up so there is not such a discrepancy between warren buffett -- >> it depends on what you do with the personal rates and personal tax reforms and how that works out. >> should personal tax rates go up? >> the sense from both commission recommended that we bring down personal tax rates but eliminate the difference between personal rates and capital gains. and, you know, i think it's good to have a little difference to encourage people to invest. but i do think the corporate tax rates -- that's different, because when i raise corporate taxes, to balance the budget, i raised it to a rate that was exactly in the middle of the global average. i was trying to make us competitive and bring the debt down. now, the global average has dropped to about either 25 or

26%. we got to be around there somewhere to be competitive. and it's easier to do what both candidates have urged, which is lower the rates and broaden the tax base and much to do in the corporate sphere than the individual sphere. >> so you mentioned that you invited the president and mitt romney here today. you invited them and they are coming. to touch upon a conversation we have been having all morning, there are some that feel this president didn't reach across the aisle enough and doesn't reach out and invite the other side for drinks, coffee, golf, whatever to work on the connection to ultimately making a deal. the same narrative applies to his relationships around the world, according to some, and they say that the president could learn a thing or two from you. is that fair? and is his approach to -- >> my guess is -- i think he does talk to world leaders quite

a lot and, as i said, i think -- i could see the impact of the conversation he had with president morsi who really, in fairness to him, had what was a pretty unprecedented situation on his hands when they found the film trailer on the internet somehow and made it look like it was american policy. keep in mind, the average egyptian, you know, has had -- never lived under a situation where there was separation of was we call church and state from the mosque and the state. first and in the navaric years, a governor agency approved or sent out sermons the imans would give and they got a quarter of the vote. they don't understand it so it was easy to persuade people who didn't know anything that, of

course, we knew about it and, of course, it was sanctioned when, in fact, it was a film, a trailer on a film that was never even made, that everybody thought was pretty bad. so i think that that kind of conversation is going on. he played golf with speaker boehner and i'll make you a prediction. i think -- i'll tell you what i think is really going on and how i think he should see this tax issue. i think the president concluded that if he just gave up one for one more year on the bush tax cuts and didn't let them expire that he didn't get a budget deal and that what would happen is after the election facing a budget cliff, will have a very interesting post-election lame duck session of congress, they will avoid the physical cliff

and productive a budget agreement either in this lame duck session or in the first couple of months of the next year. that's what i think will happen. >> is part of the company every year that drives mika crazy when i talk about how we all sh in the 1990s, worked together, despite some pretty tough differences. >> we did in 1995. we had a pretty rough '95 eye. >> 95 was an ugly year and a couple of other ugly years. >> the other ugly years we already had a modus operandi. you look what is accomplished in '98 and '99 and 2000. they were good years. the only desert year we had was '95. >> i talk specifically about 1999 because people will poke at me when i talk about how you and the republican congress work together. i said, no, you should look at 1999 because even in the worst of times, the president's people were talking to leaders of congress. >> every day. >> and somehow even in the worst

of times, even in the constitutional crisis, government worked. people put the country ahead of their own party in the day-to-day workings of the capital. >> but i think that should give you hope if the president wins the election and i believe he will, that something like that will happen next time. let's go back and look at what really happened in the '90s. so we have this -- you know, '94 was contentious but things got done. and then the republicans won the congress. '95, hardly anything got done. we did get the budgets out on time -- i mean, the only year we didn't get the budgets out on time so there were two government shutdowns. then public opinion shifted strongly against that. the leaders of your caucus in congress decided that it probably would win in '96 and we started working together because

the shutdown for an action forcing event. this time, after the election, there will be less gridlock if governor romney were to win, he just would implement the agenda that he campaigned on. >> right. >> and if the president wins re-election, which is what i think will happen, it no longer makes sense to have your number one goal defeating him for re-election because he can't run for anything. and i believe, and he will no longer have as his number one goal drawing distinctions between himself and this party that says they want to beat him. they both will have a dramatically greater incentive to get stuff done. >> will the parties allow that to happen? you look what happened in the '90s and i'll be the first to admit it that i didn't see some things coming. i would say democrats didn't as well in '93 and '94, i campaigned on the tax increase and i got elected because of the tax increase.

i thought it was going to wreck the economy. it didn't wreck the economy. and '95 and '96, a lot of tougher decisions by republicans and a lot of cuts that were unpopular with democrats, as well as welfare reform. we heard all of the horror stories. you look at the tough decision you guys made in '93 and '94 and the tough decisions we made sometimes that you agreed with and sometimes you didn't, taken together, those were three or four pretty dramatic years of political leaders stepping up and doing unpopular things. >> but that's what -- >> can we do that? 2013? is washington still capable of that? >> i predict it will happen. i think you'll have, just like we did then, you'll have people out here and out here that won't agree with that, but i think you'll have an operating majority to do something. i really -- i believe that will happen. you have dick durbin out there shopping some sort of prelude to it a budget deal and he was

viewed for most of is career as one of the more liberal members of the senate and he's out there, he knows that this debt is going to eat us alive as soon as growth returns to the economy, which it will and more robust fashion the next two or three years and interest rates start to go up, it is going to eat us alive so he is doing that. that should give you hope. we are going get something done. when this election is over, you will see breaking log jam. >> president bill clinton, thanks for having us here at the clinton global initiative. nice to see you two together again. >> thanks. together again! >> together again! >> yes, yes. >> the glory days. >> we will be right back with much more "morning joe." ♪ americans are always ready to work hard for a better future. since ameriprise financial was founded back in 1894, they've been committed to putting clients first. helping generations through tough times. good times. never taking a bailout.

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♪ coming up next on "morning joe," business before the bell with our man brian sullivan. we are going from president clinton to brian sullivan and for that, we apologize. keep it on "morning joe." [ male announcer ] whether it's kevin's smartphone...

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let's get a check on business before the bell with cnbc brian sullivan. we send it across the river to cnbc headquarters. what is up, man? >> you can't hate the player, just hate the game and i deliver the news as best i can. stock futures looking pretty solid this morning. not a lot will move the pattern and i think a holding pattern until the election. watch facebook today. the stock could get slammed again and it got crushed yesterday and some concerns out there that people are posting, you know, private messages that are somehow appearing on their wall slamming their sister-in-law and it's suddenly

there for everybody to say. maybe the users made a mistake, yeah, watch that. all of the attention i know is on apple. watch google. google stock quietly taking off the last two months and at a record high which is huge. and "wall street journal" reporting that more younger people are saving for retirement than ever before. 44% of those under age of 27 now contributing to their 401(k) plans. they are scared and they are saving which ultimately is probably a good thing. >> that is a good thing. that google price is incredible. so the ipo price for facebook was 38 and we're down to 20 bucks a share. how low can this go? >> barron said a $15 stock and they had a cover story over the weekend. if you're looking at facebook on the web is one thing. a lot of screen real estate for ads but if you're checking facebook as basically half people do from their smart phones, there's no real estate there and no room for

advertisements, especially ones will click on and that is basically their revenue model so facebook has some challenges ahead. >> that my problem. i have a limited phone, not a smart phone. what is this facebook thing? i've heard of it. >> or as belichick called it, my face -- or my face? >> my facebook. >> oh, by the way, the nfl, fix your problem! >> no kidding! >> what is it going to take? how many more monday night debalkld debacles do we have to watch? coming up, what did we learn? i knew it'd be tough on our retirement savings, especially in this economy. but with three kids, being home more really helped.

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but plenty of companies do that. so we make something else. we help make life a little easier, more convenient, more rewarding, more entertaining. year after year. it's the reason why we don't have customers. we have members. american express. welcome in. we learned today. jon meacham? >> i learned that bill clinton in addition to the economy and everything, he is analyzing the arkansas razorbacks. >> i learned that you're trending. >> we got the screen grab frame and put it ove